miércoles, mayo 02, 2007

Estatua e disturbios en Tallinn

Aqui tedes toda a cadena que desencadenou (valga a redundancia) o comentario no foro dos estudiantes internacionales..
Ahí tiven que mediar eu.. que se non .. heheheh.. a verdade é que me estaban a tocar os c... con tantos mails... asi que decidin responder...
Tamen podedes ver como incriblemente a coordinadora erasmus tomou parte e dunha maneira menos parcial do que eu me esperaba.. sorprendeume bastante.. (ela é Riin)
E por suposto o último comentario .. o mellor... Christoph grande! (a Christoph podedelo ver nunha das fotos do post do tram party conmigo..)
Aqui vai a sucesión de respostas.. incrible que esto pase..
E de qué nos intentan convencer ós internacionales!?!?
Para qué coño se meten a discutir todo esto no foro dos erasmus?

Dear All!

Please be informed that you got one ONE-side version, which is proposed here to people via newpapers and TV and ! There is also a REAL history...

Study well;)

Catherine

Hi!

Just my personal opinion. This letter does not seem neutral. There are facts, that are not trustworthy.

Russian native speaking person.
Viktoria



Hi!

This is quite nice historical fairy tale.

If you would like to know history, read historical books =)

Have a nice day,

Vladimir


It seems that Estonians and Russians have different history.. We would be very interested to hear about „your” history.. I personally don’t know any other.

Good job Ivo!

Riin


Hmm,

Well, I think that Ivo explained his view.

So why dont you bring out and disprove the facts that are wrong in your opinion.

I am more than curious to hear them.

To Vladimir:

Which historical books have you read?

Kaisa
Native estonian speaker



I forgot smth.

Ivo explained his view and the view of majority living in this country- Estonia!

Kaisa



Dear All!

Firstly, In my opinion that was only ONE-Side view information

Secondly, I think this kind of the provocative things should not take place in the university as TUT!

Jekaterina

Origin Russian from Estonia



Kaisa,

1. If it is Ivo's view why do you protect it so much?

2. especially for you - this is not very nice to make sarcasm here!

Catherine

Origin Russian from Estonia


Hello.

I am Teemu from
Finland, so im an outsider. And to me Ivo's
briefing makes sense.

My personal opinion is that bodies of dead soldiers should be located
to graveyard. Not to the city centre. That's the practise in all civilized
countries.

Somehow
Vladimirs quote "nice little fairy tale" reminds me of Russias way
to deal with things; ignoring facts and not giving any proofs to their own
opinion.
If Ivo's story isn't accurate, could you please point out the facts that
don't make
sense, instead of labelling it all as bullshit.

Your message which has two sentencies doens't make any sense to me.

I was in riots and no one over there gave a fuck about the statue, they
wanted to break things and get some free alcohol from shops. Most of
the people were underaged brats in drunk. And I know that the police
did had to use the force against the people. All the calm approaches of
police were stoned. There weren't any options left.

Teemu
-drunken finnish bystander


I'm outsider too.

You said Ivo's briefling makes sense.. well, maybe it does, but we are not
discussing about that here, We are just saying that it is not a "neutral
overview" as himself claims since it very clearly contains subjective and
personal opinions which, for some of you may or may not make sense. All in
all, that was HIS opinion, which I respect (don't share though) but it was
not objective at all.

Appart from that, I don't see why it is absolutely necessary to send a
personal opinion to all Students, what was the intention of the email? Was
it to make people believe an opinion hidden within a couple of real facts?
Why don't you then propose a debate instead of calling the shots?

Fernando


I'm the same meaning with Victoria...

You was trying to make this letter neutral, but it was fully on the side of estonians...

I don't have anythig against estonian people, if they are good to me, however as russian i felt a descriminaton to me through all my life.

And besides, this letter is not realy true, there are some facts that are not trustworthy.

Sincerily
Anna

Diego Fernandez :

I'm a foreign student also.
I really think that this forum of international students is not the place for discussing this matter.
It has been always a forum for informing about incoming events, trips, visits, etc.
If people really want to discuss this situation, so you should organize a meeting or a discussion forum, but it's enough with all these mails.
I have also my own opinion, but i don't want to argue, at least here.

Thanks.
Diego.

What i would like to say also, is that this monument was erected just streight after the 2nd WW, and it was on the same place for 60 years, and everything was ok. Both estonians and russian came to the monument to rever the memory to a soldier-liberator, the soldier that released Estonia from fascism.

But unfortunately because of the events of the last year when the place of a monument has been used for promotion of the Soviet mode and the insult of independence of
Estonia. For a part of the population this monument became a symbol of occupation!

And besides, vandals were also both russians and estonians! And of course, not any sane person will be for them.

Anna.


I have no idea who Anna is, but she sent one of the most reasonable
mails to this list about this subject. Well done!

I find this subject really interesting, but i see no added value to
send a mail about it to all international students..

As a side note, as an outsider living in Estonia i find it appalling
that i could get more information about this matter on BBC or Euronews
(BBC had LIVE images of the events) than on ETV or any other Estonian
TV channel... You should question your media more than you do...

Other than that, i appreciate the idea of discussing this in a true
forum, orgnaised for this event, neutral and with opinions form both
sides.
I for one volunteer to moderate it.

Cheers
Joao

Dear all,

I agree that the neutrality of the original email is very questionable and also think no one here is without a bias - including myself, born in
Moscow and having lived in the US for half of my life.

I also support that a forum be organized for a moderated discussion - I ask that the moderators of this email group help organize this ASAP - maybe a joined discussion between TTU and
Tallinn University.

AND although this chain of emails is not the best places for the current discussion THIS SHOULD BE DISCUSSED AMONG UNIVERSITY STUDENTS - students have and should continue to play a crucial role in addressing political, historic, social, and cultural topics..... especially in times of crisis....

The dominant role played by youth in the events of the past week has highlighted a tragic situation. There has been much hope that the tensions between the Russian speaking and Estonian speaking population will subside with the exact generation that committed the majority of the acts of the past week.

Please inform me of the forum, discussion - I will gladly participate. I was physically present during the demonstration at the monument the first night, during the riots/looting, during the violence that took place on Thursday and Friday night and will be glad to share my view and even photos.

Sincerely,
Pavel


could you please all stop spamming arround with this fuck?! get yourself some http-base blog forum or whatever to discuss that shit!

Christoph.

3 comentarios:

kike dijo...

Mima meu
Ti q andiveches a facer, non che dixemos claramente q non podias traer pa casa a estatua do ruso ese q tanto che gustaba.
De todo esto eu vin algo na tele e a verdade e q impresiona ver os sitios q visitei ahi todos destrozados. Pero bueno, despois da tempestade sempre ven a calma, non?
A parte ti q coñeces xente dos dous lados, espero q n teñas problemas e teñas q decidir con que bando estas, jeje
Cambiando de tema agora entendin pq te elixiron po casting: necesitamos un tio to resacoso e descoidado pero q o mesmo tempo sexa irrestible para as chatis, e de repente vente a ti un martes as 7 da maña to cocido e ligando... UN MILAGRO
Ademais a ti pasache de todo, agora resulta q vas a sair na tele sen ter nin papa de estono, a saber o q dixeron de ti, jeje

Bueno meu, espero q por ahi a cousa te mais calmada e q podades recuperar a calma canto antes. Coidate

Un saudo pos visitantes

Anónimo dijo...

A verdade e que non dou crédito!!!
Unhas semanas sen visitar o blog e atópome:
Uns estranxeiros (tres concretamente) en Estonia destrozandoo todo o q vian o seu paso, pero ai q ver o q argallaron estes, e o peor e q lle votan as culpas os rusos... Diego dinos a verdade, Estonia non poido coas festas que María, Teresa e Kike se montaron ahí, non??
Fora bromas, espero q chegues sano e salvo de volta, ti non te metas demasiado que xa sabemos que es especilista en atoparte cos elementos máis extranos, e por certo, q di o teu colega skin de todo esto?? Moito coidado q te keremos enteiro por aquí.
Xa podes traer como agasallo para todos nos unha copia de ese debut cinematográfico, nin Robert Reford nos seus comezos.

Un saudo para tod@s e unha aperta forte para ti. Coidate moito.

Marga.

Anónimo dijo...

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Sorry for offtopic